Marriage Life Group

Week 2 of our marriage life group is coming up this Friday night. As Jude has already mentioned we are going through Dave Harvey's When Sinner's Say I Do. Here's a few of the points I felt were notable from Chapters 1 and 2

Preface

p. 14 Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do

p. 15 To say “I am a sinner” is to stare at a fundamental reality that many people don’t even want to glance at.

p. 16 “Till sin be bitter, Christ will not be sweet.” (Thomas Watson)

Chapter 1 What Really Matters in Marriage

Theologians at the Altar

p. 20 What we believe about God determines the quality of our marriage

p. 21 So make no mistake about it. How a husband and wife build their marriage day-by-day and year-by-year is fundamentally shaped by their theology. It governs how you think, what you say, and how you act. Your theology governs your entire life and it determines how you live in your marriage.

p. 23 We obviously live in a day when the meaning of marriage is up for grabs. Unfettered from any source of authority, marriage follows culture…no matter where culture goes.

p. 25 The gospel is therefore central to all theological truth, … The gospel is the fountain of a thriving marriage. (This paragraph is the main connection to the message we listened to from Mike Bullmore on The Functional Centrality of The Gospel)

p. 25 God is the most important person in a marriage. Marriage is for our good, but it is first for God’s glory.

p. 26 Christ is the reference point for all our actions in marriage (Eph 5)

p. 27 The ‘mystery’ of marriage is that when God designed it, he had Christ and the Church in mind.

p. 28 Marriage is street level theology – i.e. a great spot to see your theology in action. …Christ certainly saved us but he does not transform us instantly and completely into non-sinners. (Justification vs sanctification)

p. 29 There needs to be an ongoing awareness of our need for ongoing grace and mercy.

p. 29 A really challenging thought… What if you saw your problems as they truly are: caused by a was within your own heart?

Chapter 2 Waking Up With the Worst of Sinners

p. 35 I Tim 1:15 (Paul – the worst of sinners) …This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. (p 36 and 37 breaks this down a little further)

p. 37 A great awareness of one’s sinfulness often stands side by side with great joy and confidence in God.

p. 38 I recognize the enormity of my sin, seeing myself as the worst of sinners, then I understand I have been forgiven much.

p. 40 (This made me laugh) “Christ Jesus came into the world to … meet my needs, of which I have the most!”

p. 41 (The crux of the argument) Once I find 1 Tim 1:15-16 trustworthy, then my spouse is no longer my biggest problem: I am. And when I find myself walking in the shoes of the worst of sinners, I will make every effort to grant my spouse the same lavish grace that God has granted me.

p. 41 In reference to God and sin, I am not a neutral actor. (This is interesting. You ought to ask yourself what you truly believe about people? Is your feeling that people are inherently good, neutral or inherently bad? Now try and support your view biblically. Keep in mind that the bible also has plenty of directions about how we should behave towards one another. So your answer to this question doesn’t immediately give you license to treat anyone in a particular manner which you see as fit)

p. 42 Sin is always aimed first and foremost at God

p. 42 Dave describes using “asking forgiveness” as a means to an end or “a tool” by leaving God out of his considerations

p. 43 …anything we do that isn’t sin is simply the grace of God at work (see discussions on common grace from previous life groups)

p. 44 “There are two things that are suited to humble the soul of men, a due consideration of God, and then ourselves. Of God, in his greatness, glory, holiness, power, majesty and authority; ourselves, in our mean, abject and sinful condition”

Sinner!

Guys, the radiant woman on whose finger you slipped that wedding ring? ... sinner. Ladies, the man who offered you a vow of perfect faithfulness and lifelong sacrifice? ... sinner. In ceremonies all over the world, every day, without exception, it is sinners who say, "I do." It is sinners who celebrate their tenth anniversary, their twenty-fifth, and their fiftieth. It is sinners who share a final kiss at a spouse's deathbed. It is a sinner who wrote this book. And it is sinners who are reading it. (Harvey, David T. When Sinners Say "I Do": Discovering the Power of the Gospel for Marriage. Wapwallopen, PA: Shepherd, 2007. Print. 28)

Wedding Day by Laura Barbosa

Life group on marriage

We began a marriage-focused life group last week that will be using Dave Harvey's book When Sinners Say "I Do". I have begun re-reading the book and will be sharing some quotes from the book.

Early on in the book, Harvey expresses his belief that theology is and underlying yet governing aspect of our marriages. He quotes R. C. Sproul in this chapter, writing,

No Christian can avoid theology. Every Christian is a theologian [... ] the issue for Christians is not whether we are going to be theologians but whether we are going to be good theologians or bad ones.

He proceeds with his argument:

How a husband and wife build their marriage day-by-day and year-by-yearn is fundamentally shaped by their theology. It governs how you think, what you say, and how you act. Your theology governs your entire life. And it determines how you live in your marriage. (21)

What a great way to start a book on marriage.

When Sinners Say "I Do" by Dave Harvey - Chapter Four and Five, some quotes

More quotes from Dave Harvey's book on marriage When Sinners Say "I Do".


Chapter Four - Taking It Out For A Spin

• "When God saves us we are drawn to unfamiliar things - to holiness, truth, the Scriptures, and God's amazing love. As we learn more, though, we have a desire to act on what we know and believe about God...Biblically speaking, putting theology into gear means driving onto the road of wisdom. Wisdom in the Bible isn't some mystical knowledge or simple street savvy. It's the life and decisions of someone rightly related to God. It's applying what we know is true." (62-3)

• "True humility is living confident in Christ's righteousness, and suspicious of our own." (63)

• "This may be a shocker, but we should be suspicious...selectively, permanently, and internally. As the worst of sinners, in the day-to-day conflicts of marriage, I should be primarily suspicious and regularly suspicious of myself! To be suspicious of my own heart is to acknowledge two things: that my heart has a central role in my behavior, and that my heart has a permanent tendency to oppose God and his ways." (64)

• "Scripture does not give me permission to make the sins of my spouse my first priority." (66)

• "There's a lot of talk these days about the need for honesty in marriage. Unfortunately, what's being advocated looks more like a license to verbally unload on our spouse whatever we're "feeling" for the sake of "emotional honesty." Sadly, this approach in practice typically produces great hurt and offense. Though honesty is essential in marriage, we must be able to build trust and resolve offenses. The problem is not with honesty itself, but in the intent of a person's honest words." (68)

• "Can my words or behavior tempt my spouse to start or escalate a conflict? Of course...But there's nothing I can do to cause a sinful response in my spouse. The sin that emerges from a spouse's heart was already there." (73)

Chapter Five - Mercy Triumphs Over Judgment

• But deep, profound differences are the reality of every marriage. It's not the presence of differences but the absence of mercy that makes them irreconcilable." (81)

• "We don't wait to be sinned against and then try to respond with mercy. Rather, we adopt the posture of being willing to experience sin against us as part of building a God-glorifying marriage in a fallen world." (84)

• "But we must go back and ask, "What is the purpose of mercy?" Do I extend mercy to get a response? Are results the point? Is mercy some spiritual coin with which I purchase my spouse's good behavior?" (93)

Forebearance - From Dave Harvey's book on marriage

Dave Harvey

I have been enjoying Dave Harvey's book on marriage; When Sinners Say "I Do". It has been both a convicting and encouraging read. In the fifth chapter Harvey discusses an aspect of forgiveness that does not get a lot of coverage these days, at least not from what I have heard and read; forbearance.

By definition, forbearance is restraint under provocation; a refraining from the enforcement of something (as a debt, right, or obligation) that is due. Consider these paragraphs where Harvey addresses forbearance.

Maybe you didn't know this, but the Bible gives you a special privilege in dealing with sin committed against you. It's called forbearance. It means you can bring love into play in such a way that can cut someone free from their sin against you - without them even knowing or acknowledging what you've done! Forbearance is an expression or mercy that can cover both the big sins of marital strife and the small sins of marital tension. And let's face it; small sins are the fuel for most marital blazes.

Let's be careful here. Forbearance doesn't mean we tuck sin away for another time. It's not a variation on patience, nor is it some Christianized, external "niceness" where you pretend nothing bothers you. It's not even a kind of ignoring the sin, in the sense of refusing to acknowledge it.

In forbearance, we know (or at least we suspect) we have been sinned against, but we actually make a choice to overlook the offense and wipe the slate clean, extending a heart attitude of forgiveness and treating the (apparent) sin as if it never happened. Proverbs 19:11 tells us it is a "glory to overlook an offense." Forbearance is preemptive forgiveness, freely and genuinely bestowed.

Of course, righteousness often demands that we address the sin of another, even if it may create some unpleasant results. (We'll discuss this in chapter seven.) It's not forbearance to suppress a sin you can't readily release, or to prefer the pain of being sinned against to what you imagine would be the greater pain of discussing it, or to let a pattern of sin in your spouse go completely unaddressed.

Forbearance applies to specific instances of sin. It involves a clear-eyed realization that we may have been sinned against, and then a bold-hearted, Gospel-inspired decision to cover that sin with love. Peter gives us the key to forbearance. "Above all. keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:8). Looks like Peter learned the lessons of Luke 6 pretty well.

When we are sinned against, we can cover it-overwrite it, if you will-with the perspective of love. Thus, forbearance includes a commitment to earnestness in love, actively holding ourselves accountable to keeping the sin covered. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 88-9)

This is definitely a topic for further study as well as accommodation into my life.

When Sinners Say "I Do" by Dave Harvey - Chapter Two and Three, some quotes

Chapter Two - Waking Up With The Worst of Sinners

• "As two people in marriage embrace this view of reality [sin is ugly], and live in accordance with it, their lives and marriage begin to look more and more like the picture God wants to display to a lost world. Until sin be bitter, marriage may not be sweet." (38)
• But once I find 1 Timothy 15-16 trustworthy - once I can embrace it with full acceptance - once I know that I am indeed the worst of sinners, then my spouse is no longer my biggest problem: I am. And when I find myself walking in the shoes of the worst of sinners, I will make every effort to grant my spouse the same lavish grace that God has granted me." (41)
• "So here is my conclusion: I am a better husband and father, and a happier man, when I recognize myself as the worst of sinners. That status just seems more obvious to me with the passing of each week. But then again, you're the worst of sinners too. So is your spouse. At least it's not lonely here at the bottom." (43)

Chapter Three - The Fog of War and the Law of Sin

• "There it is. The sides of this war are not male versus female, husband versus wife, or controller versus enabler. It is a clash of desires - desires of the flesh against desires of the Spirit. It is trench warfare for the supremacy of the human heart." (48)
• "This whole idea of seeing God, yourself, and your marriage for what they truly are is all about clear biblical thinking. Locating the source of your marriage problems in your marriage is like saying the Battle of Bull Run was caused by some really troubled farmland. The battle was fought on farmland, but its cause lay elsewhere." (51)
• "The cause of our marriage battles, friends, is neither our marriage nor our spouse. It's the sin in our hearts - entirely, totally, exclusively, without exception." (51)
• "If we see that sin's betrayal of us is the biggest problem in our marriage, it can evoke, if not a perfectly holy anger, at least an indignant courage. And that's an emotion that comes in very handy on a battlefield." (57)

When Sinners Say "I Do" by Dave Harvey - Chapter One

I have just begun reading the oft-recommended book by Dave Harvey entitled When Sinners Say "I Do". The first chapter was excellent and I'd like to share a few quotes from it. First, however, here is Dave Harvey's bio:

Dave Harvey is responsible for church care, church planting, and international expansion for Sovereign Grace Ministries. He has served as a member of the Sovereign Grace Ministries leadership team since 1995.

Dave has been in pastoral ministry at Covenant Fellowship Church (Glen Mills, PA) since 1986, was ordained in 1988, and served as senior pastor from 1990 to 2008. He has served on the board of the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation since 2006. Dave received a Master of Arts in Missiology from Westminster Theological Seminary in 1989, worked toward a Master of Divinity from Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary from 1993 to 1995, and in 2001 became a graduate in Westminster’s D.Min. program. The subject of his doctoral thesis was the identification and equipping of church planters.

Dave contributed a chapter to Worldliness: Resisting the Seduction of a Fallen World (Crossway, 2008) and is the author of When Sinners Say “I Do”: Discovering the Power of the Gospel for Marriage (Shepherd, 2007). Dave also wrote a chapter for Why Small Groups?, a book from Sovereign Grace’s Pursuit of Godliness series. He continues to work on other writing projects.

Dave lives in West Chester, Pennsylvania, with his wife, Kimm, their four children, and despite his many protests, one stray cat.

Now on to those excerpts:

It may not sound too earth-shattering at first, but based on Scripture and everything I've learned about pastoring in the last twenty-one years, I assure you that this truth can rock your world. Here it is: What we believe about God determines the quality of our marriage. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 20)

How a husband a wife build their marriage day-by-day and year-by-year is fundamentally shaped by their theology. It governs how you think, what you say, and how you act. Your theology governs your entire life. And it determines how you live in your marriage. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 21)

Three of the most important components of a solid, biblical theology of marriage: The bible is the foundation for a thriving marriage...The gospel is the fountain of a thriving marriage...The focus of a thriving marriage is the glory of God. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 22-8)

This also means that the gospel is an endless fountain of God's grace in your marriage. To become a good theologian and to be able to look forward to a lifelong, thriving marriage, you must have a clear understanding of the gospel. Without it, you cannot see God, yourself, or your marriage for what they truly are. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 25)

What if you abandoned the idea that the problems and weaknesses in your marriage are caused by a lack of information, dedication,or communication? What if you saw your problems as they truly are: caused by a war within your own heart? (When Sinners Say "I Do", 29)

Maybe you are beginning to sense that if your experience of sin is not all that bitter, and your experience of marriage not all that sweet, maybe your theology is not all that it should be. (When Sinners Say "I Do", 32)